CRAIG: I started in music playing in bands and looking back. This is what you shouldn't do: don't name something that the first thing someone says is, What'd you say? I mean, you know, what was that again?

BRUCE: The anti marketing approach.

CRAIG: And still they can't say it!

BRUCE: What is it? Hey man, what's the name of it? Rubble Bounce. Rubble Bounce.

CRAIG: Rubble Bounce.

BRUCE: Like, how could I bastardize that name?

CRAIG: You know, this is why when I talk to you and you say a name for something we have, I go, don't do it. People won't be able to pronounce it. And now it seems so easy to say, but at the time, you know, people didn't understand it. So when I'd say rumble bounce, they'd go rumble bucket, rumble, rumble, fish, rumble…[laughter]

BRIAN: That's Craig Golden and Bruce Finkleman, reminiscing about their past lives, before they were managing partners and co-owners of the Salt Shed, a brand new, massive indoor/outdoor music venue and community gathering space in Chicago.

BRIAN TOUR: Oh, this is the balcony. Yeah. Alright. Look at the skyline. Oh my goodness.

CRAIG TOUR: So this is what we were talking about, that they brought the salt in and they came up this conveyor belt.

BRIAN TOUR: So can you just help me with my directions so that I know which I'm looking east.

CRAIG TOUR: Right east, yeah. Okay. And there's where the stage would be during our concert series, so you can kind of see how this place all kind of interacts together, you know? So, if you're out here for a concert, you go in there for a drink, but if you're inside for there, you can come outside and just stare at the skyline.

BRIAN TOUR: And Goose Island?

CRAIG TOUR: In that building right across the way.

BRIAN: In August of 2022, the Salt Shed opened its doors to the public for the first time, welcoming guests in to see some of their favorite bands play at the music venue’s very first summer series.

The Salt Shed is the most recent project completed by the partners. But before all of this, Bruce Finkleman was just a kid in college on his way to a show:

BRUCE: There was a lady I knew who dragged me to a concert at a very small club called the Blue Note in Columbia, Missouri. And I was in the front row. Somebody threw up on my shoe. And I went back the next day and I got a job and I never left there. And I fell in love with live music.

And I was one of the lucky people that decided very early on exactly what they wanted to do. And the rest was just trying to figure out how to dumbly fumble my way through it.

BRIAN: Both Chicago-natives, Craig Golden didn't grow up too far away from Bruce:

CRAIG: I grew up in Evanston. Just on the other side of the tracks from where Bruce did. But I did a little bit before him. I ended up doing construction to make a living, gave up the night band work, and then started doing real estate, and I was on a board of the North Light Theater here in town, and I met a fellow that wanted to open a little comedy club,

And that's where I met Bruce. You know, and that’s how we ended up here.

BRIAN: I’m Brian Maughan, chief innovation and marketing officer with Fidelity National Financial, and this is Built – The podcast where you’ll meet creative leaders in the commercial real estate industry and hear how they do what they do.

In this instance, how they transformed a nearly 100 year old salt warehouse complex into an indoor/outdoor concert venue and community gathering space they call their "fairgrounds".

Act I: Setting the Stage: Bruce & Craig's partnership and the IDEAr

BRIAN: To tell you the story of how they managed to pull off the massive redevelopment of an old Salt warehouse to turn it into a state-of-the-art concert venue that includes a guitar shop, a vintage store, food trucks and more, we have to start at the beginning: it was the early-nineties and Bruce was hard at work running his first club in Chicago.

BRUCE: My first place was called the Empty Bottle. So we had everything that happened inside the Empty Bottle was Empty Bottle. But anything that happened outside the empty bottle was Empty Bottle Presents.

BRIAN: The Empty Bottle was once described as a "cat-ridden hole-in-the-wall" and operated as both a bar and an Indie music venue in the Ukranian Village of Chicago.

BRUCE: And, we, focused on coming up with different plays for artists who didn't want a traditional play and, when we got sick of doing, you know, cemeteries and other weird places like that. And I think the first one was Bon Iver.

CRAIG Yeah. Yeah.

BRUCE: And we were looking for a, a seated place and somebody brought up. Of the Lakeshore Theater, and, it really worked perfectly for us.

CRAIG: You know, when Bruce came, he brought all the music. We were just doing stand up, you know.

BRUCE: And the thing that was kind of interesting for us, and still to this day I think it entices Craig when we look at things, is it was a different approach to doing something that was normal.
Like, we could put on a show at a club, right, or anywhere, but what would it be like if we brought our customers to a comedy club, right?

BRIAN: The two instantly hit it off, and realized pretty quickly that they each had developed a set of skills that the other was curious about.

BRUCE:  What I immediately found myself attracted to in Craig is like, he's a wood shop maker, cabinet maker, real estate guy. You know, these are all the things that I really didn't have any knowledge of.

In fact, when I met him. I, I started talking to Craig about getting probably advice for the first time. Now I'm over my limit with my advice questions, but we were having problems couldn't get you know, this restaurant called Longman and Eagle off the ground, right? [laughter]

We couldn't find a way to finance this. And I asked Craig, I was like. Got any ideas? Yeah.

CRAIG: Yeah, and I was impressed because we had more than enough good times, but we were doing nothing but lose money. You know, and it wasn't as funny as you would think. [laughter]

CRAIG: I mean, you know, and then Bruce came in and started doing music, and I'm like, these guys, they know something, you know? And so it really, you know, it started off very well together.

BRIAN: Craig founded his development company, Blue Star Properties in 2008. Working together with their hospitality group 16" on Center, the two partners got busy over the next several years, taking on project after project, renovating, building and operating a series of venues and commercial properties.

CRAIG: We did a, 900 capacity room in Pilsen.

BRUCE: [Interjects] Called Thalia Hall! [laughter]

CRAIG: You know, that was in a very different shape than it is now. And so we did that. And we did another place called Promontory in Hyde Park, I had done a place, renovated a building in Evanston called Space, which is a music place also, with a restaurant in front, and so we had, like, incremental gains in both knowledge and, you know, experience.

BRIAN: Combining their shared interests in real estate and their mutual adoration for the Chicago music scene, Bruce and Craig built relationships with the artists they booked to play at their venues.

BRUCE: We've managed to create these relationships with these bands that have grown with us from 25 people to 50 people. And these are relationships that we wanted to keep going, that bands would ask us. I can't play in a 350 cap room anymore. What else can we do together, right?

BRIAN: And so the expansion of their business also meant that they could help the artists they had grown alongside expand as well.

BRUCE: And from Space, to the Empty Bottle, to moving up to Thalia, to moving up to wherever we wanted to go, this was a great opportunity for us to take these people who we grew up with, right? And bring them along for the next part of it.

CRAIG: I mean, the, the Alabama Shakes, their first show out of Alabama, they came to Space in Evanston and they had 10 songs. That was it. And in between they got, like, written up in the New York Times and so suddenly they show up, you know, for their first show and they never really performed together in front of people and, uh, the place was packed.

Brittany Howard, who was their lead singer, you know, she was, semi-hyperventilating in our lounge, you know, because they had just done their songs. Maybe it's 12, but I'm not even sure if it's 12 songs and everyone's cheering, you know, and, and she's sitting there breathing heavily. And I said, you know, you okay?

And she said, fine. Yeah, I'm fine. You know, I mean, I said, well, I think, you know, you might have to do an encore, you know, and she said, well, we don't really have any other songs. And I said, well, just, they don't know the songs! So go play the your two best ones again [laughter] And we can wrap this up. You know what I mean?

It'll be great! They'll love it! You know what I mean? So I mean they went out and played but it's again the same thing like there to Thalia to–

BRUCE: And she's playing two sold out shows with us at Thalia and she didn't need to do that. She could have played Chicago Theater, but because of this relationship, they keep coming back and we make sure that we take care of them.

DREW TOUR: We've got, uh, four acres separated into basically four different areas.

BRIAN: Assistant General Manager of the Salt Shed, Drew Perfilio:

DREW TOUR: We have the garage, which will be Goose Islands Brewing Company's future brew pub. Um, we have the fairgrounds where we do our outdoor concerts. And then the main building split into two smaller buildings. The packing house, where they loaded the salt onto trains and trucks. And this room, which is the shed.

BRIAN: The Salt Shed is roughly a $40 million dollar redevelopment of the Morton Salt company warehouse. Sat across the river from Chicago's historically industrial Goose Island, and located right off of the Kennedy Expressway on Elston Ave, you'd be hard-pressed to miss the building during your commute into Chicago. Bruce and Craig had driven by many times and long been intrigued by this place.

BRUCE: This is a historical landmark that is also a geographical place on the map for the smack dab right in the middle of Chicago. And as you drive past it and you look at this thing, the conversations would be like, what's in that place? Or what can we do there? Or could we get in there?

BRIAN: Because of the area’s industrial past and the fact that the building had been occupied by the Salt maker since 1929, the area hadn't seen a lot of foot traffic in recent decades, though it is accessible.

BRUCE: Where this is located in the city is if you think about it, it seems very far away. But in reality, it's six blocks away from Bucktown Wicker Park, and it's a six block walk to the Blue Line stop. So it actually resides in a neighborhood.

BRIAN: After nearly 100 years in the building, the Morton Salt Company decided it was time to sell. Craig and Bruce's hospitality group, 16" on Center, and their development arm, Blue Star Properties, heard about the sale.

COO of Blue Star, Tyler Quast:

TYLER: If you go back to the original kind of start from this whole project, Um, Morton Salt was selling it. A company called R2 was smart enough to see this beautiful asset. And figure out an equity partner that had a long term vision on Chicago and wanted very positive things to stay in Chicago. They love what this was, what it is. And they wanted to kind of figure out how do we reuse that and keep that as part of the scene of Chicago.

BRIAN: As intrigued as they were by the history and location, Bruce and Craig had initially thought of passing on a project of this size.

BRUCE: How many times did it come across our desk?

CRAIG: A good three times, really, before we were stupid enough to say like, yeah, this would be a good idea. Yeah! Let's renovate an old salt shed and turn it into a music venue, you know.

BRUCE: Let's see what happens with that.

BRIAN: In 2017 the Morton Salt Warehouse was purchased by real estate investment firm R2 in partnership with SkyDeck Capital. By that time, Craig and Bruce had a dozen or so operations under their belt.

BRUCE: There was Logan Square and there was Hyde Park and there was downtown and there was Pilsen, there was a lot of driving to be done. And one thing that was always in the purview when we were driving around was this building.

BRIAN: Armed with nearly three decades of experience renovating smaller buildings throughout Chicago, they decided they wanted in on the opportunity to do the same thing for the Salt warehouse.

CRAIG: We love renovating old things. They, they resonate more to us. And the opportunity came to take like an iconic building. And I, I think, you know, honestly, I think you might've talked me into it in the end, which is like, you know, it's, it's just a noticeable, recognizable building in a good area off the highway.

We started, you know, we just started like that going: “Yeah, this could work, you know”, and then we have a design group inside so you can lay it out and you can kind of see how many people you can get in it. And I think that's how we ended up working on it. So, that was probably about five years ago, that we had the first look.

BRIAN: Craig and Bruce knew it would've been easier to tear down the warehouse and start from scratch. But the building's enormous rooftop sign, featuring the iconic Morton Salt "Umbrella Girl" and the Morton Salt slogan "When It Rains, It Pours" is woven both into the city's fabric, and into Craig and Bruce's lives.

BRUCE: We both remember coming down from where we lived and what that site meant to when you went to Chicago. When you turn that corner, you saw the sign, you were going to Chicago. And if we had put a white box up there, It would have had nothing to do with Chicago. It would have had nothing to do with this beautiful property

I remember being in a car with my family and I remember, you know, going downtown, but not really knowing what we were going to do. And then you turn the corner and you see that roof and you see that girl and it's such a known thing from our childhood that it was like that point where you're going, something exciting is going to happen.

We're going downtown and you never really knew what was going to happen because you're a kid, but it's like the old signs that you saw along the highway. These are all part of our, our childhood and they're all part of our history. It’s got a firm root in how we grew up and why we’re in this city and why we’re still in this city, instead of some place that’s warmer.

ACT 2 - BUILDING THE SALT SHED AND ITS CHALLENGES

BRIAN: Working with a gigantic warehouse complex that had been originally built to manufacture and store salt would make preserving that history considerably more difficult than anyone would have anticipated. As they came to learn, not all salt is equal.

DREW TOUR: For the last period of this building's life, it was not handling, uh, table salt. 

BRIAN: Assistant General Manager of The Salt Shed, Drew Perfilio.

DREW TOUR: It was road salt full of all kinds of chemicals that's supposed to melt, ice on highways, et cetera. Um, so yeah, some of the corrosion both to the steel and to the concrete walls, was from the salt.

Before Morton sold the place, the roof and the uh, south wall were so damaged and corroded by the salt that they drew a line that says fill line, not fill above here. Because above here, the roof is too weak to support the salt. Well, they filled above the line and the south wall collapsed onto the Acura dealer next door, destroying about 30 cars.

BRIAN: The Morton Salt complex was completed in 1930 and designed by renowned Chicago architectural firm Graham, Anderson, Probst & White. It was built to serve primarily as a storage warehouse for local table salt distribution and as a processing and packaging plant for the company.

Barges would deliver the salt to the warehouse via the adjacent river, and would come up a conveyor belt that would drop the salt into both sheds.

DREW TOUR: And there was a gondola at the top of the sheds that would run along these center beams. And it would pour the salt into mounds. And they would take the salt, and they would treat the salt, and they would take it to the packinghouse, and they would pack the salt, and they would put it on, on trucks and trains.

BRIAN: We took a tour of the Salt Shed in early 2024, and it was obvious that the space had been updated. But I wanted to know what they were able to keep. Drew Perfilio again:

DREW TOUR: The old roof with the iconic Morton Salt logo and Morton Salt Girl was removed because it was full of all kinds of nasty stuff for insulation.

And it just wasn't, quite honestly, acoustically sound. So we replaced it with this more acoustically sound roof. We put, um, these wonderful gym mats like baffles up everywhere. And we, uh, did, uh, cloth. HVAC, um, instead of, uh, uh, big metal tubes, so that this room would sound as good as it does today, which is amazing.

BRIAN: But don’t worry: that roof with the iconic Morton Salt logo wasn’t gone long.

DREW TOUR: On the exterior of the roof we did repaint the classic Morton logo Uh, the Morton Salt Girl Real name Sarah Peldon That's true. Um, and the logo, when it rains it pours. Which, although, which I have tattooed right there. Um.

So you've got the Morton Salt Slogan. I do, I do. Tattooed on your right. forearm. Let's just say I bought in completely.

BRIAN: And he's not the only one donning a Morton salt tattoo. Bruce Finkleman again:

BRUCE: If you go through our kitchens, right? And if you look at chefs, one of their number one tattoos is the Morton Salt Girl.

BRIAN: When Craig and Bruce first toured the building, they knew not to expect too much.

CRAIG: I think when we came in, it was a lot of pigeons. A lot of pigeons. Wonderful home for pigeons, you know, and, uh, and it was asbestos roof, you know, kind of thing.

So it was. It was pretty bare bones.

BRIAN: But looking around, they started to become concerned with how much of the building's structure could actually be saved.

CRAIG: Small things like, you know, that maybe, to you might be small things, but to us, you know, physically and structurally, you know, they were big things like trying to save the old steel and we ended up taking probably 40 percent of it away just because the salt had, you know, it really, you know, caused it to deteriorate.

And I think, you know, we put in some new steel that, um, fortunately, the roof took about eight months longer to be put back on. So the steel looks weathered, [laughter]

BRIAN: Fortunately, they were able to preserve other parts of the building.

BRUCE: One of the things that That really got me when we first got in here was the story about the flooring and the flooring was two by fours turned on its side.

CRAIG: Two by sixes on their side,

BRUCE: Two by sixes. So for the weight, and if you look up in the ceilings when you're walking through the lobby or the lobby floor, that's how all the floors are. And we were, I mean, like you were saying, like, hate it or love it, we were able to save it, but it's a much more detailed process to keep them than it is to maybe try another material. Right, to just go over it, and we could hardwood, you know, you know,

CRAIG: That was their heavy structure when they're driving the little bobcats around was just like butcher block of a two by six, you know on a steel structure.

BRUCE: But that's ours, man.

That's the way this place is built.

BRIAN: Planning out the features and structures they'd be able to incorporate into what would become the new Salt Shed might seem like a headache to some, but for Craig and Bruce, that was the exciting part.

COO of Blue Star, Tyler Quast again:

TYLER: they love to work with the organic nature of the things that they're given. And you can look at this whole thing and you can't replace a lot of this stuff. And so you wouldn't build it from scratch. But you can only find it in existing product that you can rework and recreate as something that resonates with everybody and is super cool just because of what it is.

BRIAN: As exciting as it was, taking on a redevelopment of this size was still daunting to the real estate developers.

CRAIG: We had never done anything this big. And the chief designer, Eric Lasher, is someone that I had done another project with before, and we had done a food hall with, and we know his sensibility was in line with ours, that, you know, we weren't trying to make over the whole place to look like something else.

He understands, like, the idea of keeping it, uh, having the history resonate, you know, in the property. And so I think he gave us a lot of comfort, laying it out and giving us 3D models and so that we could see what it would look like. And then, you know, we pretended like that's what it was looking like at the time.

And uh, you know, went out and got a loan and, you know, started working and then COVID hit.

BRIAN: As with almost every development project taking place at that time, the team felt the stress of planning this construction. But Craig and Bruce made good use of the time.

BRIAN IVU: Did it almost become an office building at that point?

CRAIG: It almost became an empty building. [laughter]

BRUCE: During that time, it was, you know, a project that probably would have moved forward a lot faster.

In fact, I think you, you said it sometime really early to me, which is like, like if we just knocked this thing down and put a vanilla box and had shows there, we would've been opening, you know, a year or whatever it was and we'd be off to the races. But, um, I kind of think that time gave us the ability to kind of sit back a little bit.

Yeah. And there wasn't like the, the hurry up, we gotta go BRIAN: They also had the fortune of having support from the city, receiving a special designation for their new roof and Morton Salt logo.

CRAIG: They were being as helpful as cities of our size can be, you know, and COVID was a little bit of a hindrance, but you know.

BRUCE: And this could have been really difficult if the city wasn't with us, right. This could have been extremely difficult.

CRAIG: Or believe that it could be done. Yeah. And I think it's maybe because of our history. I mean that, they at least thought it had a shot, you know, I mean,

BRUCE: These two losers? Yeah. Okay.

CRAIG: We ended up getting the Chicago landmark status. And, um, and I think they were really happy to have this on their plate as things that they’ve saved.

BRIAN: The Morton Salt complex was organized into three main structures: a single-story West Shed Building at the south end, Packaging Buildings at the north end, and a Garage Building in the northeast corner of the site facing Blackhawk Street. So Craig and Bruce had the problem of figuring out how best to make use of that existing space.

CRAIG: I think there was another shed about 60 percent the size. And it was right next door, and you can see the old, you know, structure sitting in the back. We left, like, a little bit of it in the back, and it was condemned, and it was beyond repair, really. And, um, we had thought, well, we'll leave the steel up. We'll do some, you know, events or things inside the, maybe we'll put a canvas on it.

Like, it'll be like a tent. And, um, and we realized that, financially, it just, there was no way to really save it.

CRAIG: We all got together and we decided, uh, let's just tear it down and open it up and, um, that took all of like a day and a half, right? I mean, and so we were standing out there and, you know, and we looked at each other.

We kind of went like, you know, “I think we can do outside shows here”, you know what I mean, and I go, “yeah, I think there's enough room to do outside shows”, which is a very large part of our business plan, which that was two years into renovating and owning the thing, you know what I mean? So, then we kind of pivoted and started, you know, thinking about inside and outside and, added, another, you know bunch of millions of dollars onto the renovation and uh, we went for it, you know what I mean?

BRIAN: COVID had slowed the construction timeline, but that period also allowed them time to re-imagine how the layout and their venue could operate.

BRIAN: In fact a few parts of the Salt Shed came together in flashes of inspiration, including inside the main concert venue, which has standing room and seats.

BRUCE: Tell me if this is correct, but I think the interior, the, where the seats, I think you drew that on a napkin. And it pretty much was the way that it was drawn from the first time that we kind of thought about it. Is that true or false?

CRAIG That's pretty true. Yeah. I think we ended up doing it the way we originally thought.

BRIAN: Other parts of the building, like the private VIP seating boxes, required a bit more creative thinking, because the main Shed’s roof is a huge A-frame.

CRAIG: We didn't know how to put in these boxes, the whole balcony here. Yeah. The private boxes, cause it's a, you know, it's this gable roof like that, you know, and, and, How do you come through the trusses without taking them all out? And so, uh, And how do you keep it wide open instead of closing it up, right?

You know, they figured that out and, you know, it was best we could do it. And, um, and that also worked out that we ended up with a balcony outside that we used for the outside shows as part of, uh, different, you know, seating that you can get for outside shows.

ACT 3 - OPENING THE SALT SHED - IT’S OPEN: GUEST/ARTIST/EMPLOYEE EXPERIENCE

CRAIG TOUR: And then, uh, you can come outside, I think, is, is, uh, So when in the summer, when we have outdoor shows, you can sit up here. And we put in speakers right on that, uh, beam right there we have a big grandstand coming, uh, that goes over the, uh, uh, those containers this summer.

BRIAN: Construction of the venue took about three years before they were able to welcome the public in for that first summer series in 2022. General Manager of the Salt Shed, Stephanie Foster:

STEPHANIE: Even that first summer without, uh, with, without a building and just, just our outdoor space, it was still pretty magical. Um, meanwhile, a lot of construction going on inside.

BRIAN: When Stephanie first joined the Shed, she had her work cut out for her.

STEPHANIE: We didn't have a staff yet. We didn't have a single tent or table or anything We didn't have a stage and we were in the process of figuring that out and how to put it all together for a cool summer series.

BRIAN: As construction on what would become the indoor concert venue was still ongoing, Stephanie began the process of hiring staff in preparation for their upcoming concert series.

STEPHANIE: When we were training our staff and we were walking through the building and showing them all the different areas we were still under construction.

We literally had to go in groups, small groups, through the space wearing hard hats And I remember having this moment of what have I done to these poor souls that have agreed to work for us That we are a couple weeks out from opening our venue. We're walking them through, we're training them, and they're still wearing hard hats and, um, trying to keep a positive attitude about that.

“Don't worry guys, this is totally gonna get done. We're totally on track!” and thinking, gosh, I hope that's true. Gosh, I hope that's true.

BRIAN: And it was. They managed to successfully pull off a 13-concert series through the months of August and September of ‘22, kicking off with a great slate of artists well-known to the city of Chicago.

STEPHANIE: We had Death Cab for Cutie. We had Jason Isbell. We had Fleet Foxes.

We had Andrew Byrd, a Chicago icon. And we were actively constructing the indoor space. So an artist was sound checking outside and inside people were drilling and laying plumbing and electrical and bringing it all together. So there was this juxtaposition of, we're putting on a show tonight. We are actively on under construction.

BRIAN: That juxtaposition may have been felt by the team, but outside, the attendees had plenty of things to enjoy. Drew again:

DREW TOUR: We pop up all kinds of, uh, outdoor bar activations from your standard, full bar set up to, bars that highlight our brand, our brand sponsors and partners. Um, anything you want. At a summer show out there, you can get from a hot dog to a smash burger to a 24-ounce beer in a plastic baseball bat.

BRIAN: And after seeing the way people even kayaked up the river to enjoy some of those summer concerts, they're not done thinking about how to take advantage of the water-facing property.

BRUCE: Someday There'll be a dock there and we will be Bruce and Craig's kayak rentals.

CRAIG: [laughter] We will be getting dozens of people from the river coming to our shows. Tens of people coming off their fancy boats! [laughter]

BRUCE: But if you think about it, that was one of the craziest things from the outdoor shows is like, at these shows, which were more people than, you know, I've hosted…

CRAIG: In my house.

BRUCE: Right. The river was full of boats and kayaks in the nighttime, listening to the show.

CRAIG: Cause it's a, it's, it's a unique view, you know, it's kind of the working person's view of Chicago. It's not, you know, just the lakefront, you know, it's really the back of the buildings and stuff, so.

And with that, with a show going, it's pretty badass.

BRIAN: While the outdoor concert series was underway, construction continued inside for another few months before the indoor venue was open to the public, at which point, guests could finally see what was inside the new Salt Shed. Stephanie Foster again:

STEPHANIE: Our first public indoor show was in February of 2023. It was Big Gigantic, which is an EDM, it's a dance crowd. We were completely sold out, and I think our staff were just wide eyed trying to, trying to make sure that we did this right and made a good first impression.

When you go inside, you see a completely renovated space that still is an obvious nod to the history of it. It's old wood floors, it's old beams, it's old brick. You see that the original is still there and it really just helps you to feel like you're stepping back in time in a way.

BRIAN: With four acres of space available to them on the property, they took care to curate the space with shops and other offerings so that guests would have a chance to have something that went beyond a music-going experience.

BRUCE: We wanted the place to be filled with makers. You have things that are that that almost put it to being, music being a secondary factor, right? Like you're walking into this place. There's drinks. You have food trucks out there. You have a fire pit going on. You have Goose Island that's bringing their original pub over across on our property.

This is a very blue collar-y type of, of building and history with this. And, you know, I think we're both um, enamored with people who make things, you know, be it from, uh, there was a woman who was making guitar straps who we really liked or Fret 12 who are doing guitars and stuff over, over there.

But I think to have a place where people can come in and experience those things as just part of what they do when they go out or they want to experience something, I think those are things that we get really excited about.

BRIAN TOUR: Let's go through this. So there's, oh my goodness. This is fantastic.

BRIAN: Alongside planning and curating a unique guest experience, designing the green rooms and a backstage area for the artists who are booked to play at the Salt Shed was equally important.

BRIAN TOUR: So these, these are two green rooms, right? So A and B and they can be opened up?

CRAIG TOUR: Exactly, so that in case they don't like each other, like it's Hall and Oates and, you know, they're suing each other and we can put them in two different rooms.

BRIAN: Artists’ tour schedules can be grueling. Many of them tour with an opening band, and spend weeks or months living on a bus, traveling from location to location together.

BRIAN TOUR: What's a normal green room look like? Because I don't think they look like this, do they?

CRAIG TOUR: Most of, I mean, no, they really don't. You're either in the basement on a couch, or a room about a little bit smaller than this that has a little fridge in the corner, and not that it, you know I don't want to throw any shade, but, you know, that's, that's it.

BRIAN TOUR: Yeah.

CRAIG TOUR: That's what you get.

BRIAN TOUR: Oh yeah, this is very nice.

BRIAN: Having developed those strong relationships with many of the returning artists who had been playing at Craig and Bruce's smaller music venues for years, they wanted to take advantage of this opportunity to design something that went above and beyond the standard green rooms they were used to.

BRUCE: This whole complex back here, this was like such a big part of the design of this place was to make sure that artists, when they came here, knew that we cared about them as much as they cared about their audiences. Yeah.

CRAIG: We set the table and like anyone else in your home, when you set a nice table and everybody's happy, you're like, Oh, they leave. And you go like, great. What a nice night. Do you know what I mean? And so that's how we feel every night we can.

BRIAN: The backstage facility includes many wishlist items that they thought artists would be happy to see. Stephanie again:

STEPHANIE: They want to see a lot of showers. They want to see a good catering room. They want to see really comfortable spaces to lounge.

STEPHANIE: They want to see laundry…on-site! [laughter] Really, really simple things. But at the same time, you know, a lot of venues aren't able to do that. Older facilities aren't always able to retrofit in that way. And we were able to kind of custom build what we felt was going to be the best case scenario for an artist experience.

BRIAN: And the feedback they got for their efforts was overwhelmingly positive.

CRAIG:The first, uh, was it, Iggy Pop that came out on the stage and, you know, went like, “you guys don't know what's going on back behind these curtains, but there's like a four star hotel back there! And it's great. They got a toilet that heats!”, you know, and it was like, you know, it was like, we did it right.

Iggy Pop. He knows the difference.

BRIAN TOUR: Is it ever hard to get them to leave? It's so nice.

CRAIG TOUR: Sometimes, I know sometimes they do. Hey, y'all want to, you want to stay for another show?

BRIAN: And they really did try to think of everything.

BRIAN TOUR: Okay. So where are we right now? We're on the other side.

CRAIG TOUR: So you're, you're, yeah, you're on the side of the stage. So the bands would be really where the screen is. Yeah. And we, uh, use this area here, the both, all this couch area, um, as, um, when bands are here, this is, these are their friends and family. So, um, instead of having tickets and seats, we just give them this whole area.

I mean, you know, um, we put in. Sound for them too. But I mean, they kind of hang out here. So, but agents, managers, you know, people don't want to be with the unwashed masses, you know, I mean, they'll stay here, but all the it's really the, uh, it's really the artists.

BRUCE: It gives us the ability to be to, to change this space up and you can have two private events happening here.

BRIAN: Outside of the backstage area, there's plenty of places to stand to watch a show. Here’s Drew again.

DREW TOUR: Our GA floor seats 2,700 people, or not, I shouldn't say seats.

They stand. General admission standing floor. One of the cool things that separates the Salt Shed from other concert venues is the general admission standing area isn't only on the floor in front of the stage. The area we're in on the side of the grandstand and the very top of our grandstand is also general admission. But, um, for younger shows, uh, newer artists, GA floor always fills up first.

Those guests line up outside for hours, sometimes days, sometimes multiple of days, to be the first people into the venue so they can rush that stage and get right up in front of everybody.

BRIAN: In addition to the General Admission standing area, guests who prefer to be seated during a show have plenty of options too, courtesy of that initial design Craig drew up on that napkin.

DREW TOUR: So while 2700 of our closest friends can, uh, get nice and cozy with each other on the GA floor in front of the, in front of the grandstand. The first three rows of the grandstand have super plush seating, kind of like lean back in a movie theater style plush seating. The rest of the rows of the grandstand are just regular plush, not super plush.

DREW TOUR: Um, some of the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in in a concert venue, um, and just for insiders, the absolute best sound in the building is row B, seat number four.

BRIAN: Watching people come inside getting to experience a concert in the seats and stands he drew up years prior, reminds Craig of why they do it in the first place.

CRAIG: We like to do things that we enjoy ourselves. So we like to create things like that. And we're just about, like, I think good development, is, you know, kind of a mashup between, Naivete and over self confidence, you know, where you, you look at something you're like, yeah, we could do this and then you're naive enough to think like it's gonna work and you spend the next five years doing it and it can't be, I think it's safe to say more pleasurable and exciting for us to be in the venue.

Watching a band that we like, and so it's, it's great. We're like fans, you know.

BRIAN: And for the staff who work at Salt Shed, it's pretty great too. Stephanie again:

STEPHANIE: I will say we also get a lot of inquiries of people who want to work here and it's because they've come to a show and they just thought it was the greatest thing ever.

Or they'll come to us and say, I keep buying tickets to all of your shows and it's getting expensive. [laughter] So if I could work here, that would be better.

BRIAN: The Salt Shed has a staff of over 250 people, all of whom are deeply invested in ensuring every show is a great one.

STEPHANIE: I think we have a really great team of leaders, managers that, um, aren't interested in settling for second best.

I think we all want this to be the best experience it could possibly be. We love going to concerts. We're all so passionate about live music that I think for us, um, making sure that it is the best concert experience in the city. Making sure that we just completely blow people away has always been our number one goal.

BRIAN: Stephanie hopes that working at the Salt Shed can serve as a stepping stone for employees who have higher ambitions in the music industry.

STEPHANIE: Maybe they're coming onto our team as a security guard or working in the box office, selling tickets, or they're, um, ushering guests in our grandstand.

But for them, that might really truly be the start of a career in the music industry. And I've seen a lot of sides of it myself and have those connections. And a really fun part of it for me is seeing that fire and people who want to make a career out of this and finding pathways and connections, uh, that can bring them that experience and further their careers.

BRIAN: The Salt Shed has been welcoming guests to its shows and fairgrounds for over a year now, though Stephanie says things are still developing and changing all the time.

STEPHANIE: We're constantly learning and we're still in that phase where there might be a first time we're doing something. It's our first time doing a, a market with a bunch of vendors outside, or it's our first time we had the Blackhawks number one draft pick party, first drone show we've ever had.

And so we're constantly looking at that opportunity to improve and make it better. And our conversations are always about the guests and their experience. It's always our focus.

BRIAN: The community response to the venue has been strong, with the Salt Shed even snagging a couple of awards this past year:

STEPHANIE: So, we've had an amazing response in our first year of opening and the Chicago Reader just came out with their list for 2023 and we were voted the best venue in the city of Chicago. which I think is a pretty auspicious beginning for our first year. So, we're doing something right if they're voting for us. And we've also won the Pollstar Best New Venue in the Country Award, which are two really amazing awards to see in your first year of operation.

BRIAN: Tyler Quast:

TYLER: No one creates stuff like this anymore. And so how do you, um, How do you use it in a way in which people can embrace it and understand what it was and enjoy what it is? And I think that's why you do this kind of, kind of, you know, redevelopment, adaptive reuse.

BRIAN: Reflecting on what they've accomplished, Craig and Bruce feel that what they've built is a true representation of who they are and what they do.

BRUCE: As a Chicagoan, this is very much part of my Chicago. And, you know, our neighborhood Chicago. So when you have a place that's like this, you know, be it a music venue or be it someplace that does other things. For me, it was really important to bring this to the city as part of a community, as part of a neighborhood, as part of something that everybody could join. It's like a park for the people that live in Chicago.

CRAIG: I mean, we are general contractors, we're a design group, we're promoters, um, we're owners and operators of venues, um, so, we have all this interest, and this was, as I like to say, it's a great way to keep us off the streets, you know, it's a unique way to put all of those things together so that we get busy and we're busy for a time and it's more of an expression of, of who we are, none of these things, you know, we don't, we're not looking because we need it, you know, we're looking because we like this stuff.

BRIAN: Now when you drive down the Kennedy Expressway and look out toward Goose Island, you'll see that rooftop Morton Salt logo, but with a fresh coat of paint. And of course, the chance to pull off at the Division Street exit, and see what's inside. Drew again:

DREW TOUR: The way I hear people tell it is when they were growing up in whatever suburb they grew up in, they knew they were downtown when they saw the roof of the Morton Salt Factory from the highway. Like, now we know we're in Chicago. And none of those people who saw that– it was a landmark to them, a signpost– ever thought they would be inside it.

Let alone seeing a concert inside it. Or hanging out on that part of the Chicago River. Always hidden from view around Goose Island. These are secret pockets of a city they thought they knew, that they moved to, that they live in, that they're now getting to experience for the first time through the eyes of Blue Star and 16" on Center and the artists who hit our stage.

BRIAN: To see photos from our visit to the Salt Shed in Chicago, visit builtpodcast.com.

BRIAN: Built is a co-production of Fidelity National Financial and PRX Productions. From FNF, our project is run by Annie Bardelas. This episode was produced by Morgan Flannery and edited by Genevieve Sponsler. Production support by Emmanuel Desarme. Audio mastering by Rebecca Seidel. Our location producer is Lou Carlozo. The Executive Producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzales.

Special thanks to our guests, Craig Golden, Bruce Finkleman, Drew Perfilio, Stephanie Foster and Tyler Quast.

BRIAN: I’m Brian Maughan.

If you like what you hear, tell a friend in commercial real estate about us! And remember, every story is unique, every property is individual, but we’re all part of this BUILT world.